Richie Shamooilian
[Music] That's where I want to be
June 3, 2025 · 1 hr 4 min
Mastering Beverly Hills Development: Lessons from Three Power Players
With Alan Nissel, Richie Shamooilian & Avi Stieglitz — Beverly Hills Developers
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How do you assemble hundreds of units in one of the most restrictive markets in the country? In this episode of No Vacancy, Taylor Avakian sits down with developers Alan Nissel, Richie Shamooilian…
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Episode show notes
How do you assemble hundreds of units in one of the most restrictive markets in the country? In this episode of No Vacancy, Taylor Avakian sits down with developers Alan Nissel, Richie Shamooilian, and Avi Stieglitz, who collectively control over 600 units in the pipeline in Beverly Hills. These three operators break down how they’re: - Navigating entitlement delays and development hurdles - Working with city constraints to unlock density - Avoiding land loans and raising patient capital - Pivoting across asset types and use cases - Investing in properties others overlook Get a rare, inside look at how three friends turned LP relationships into a serious development platform — all while staying low-profile and ultra-strategic in California’s most competitive submarket. Subscribe and Stay Ahead! Stay informed and empowered in the multifamily real estate market. Subscribe to the channel for exclusive insights, rental updates, and expert analyses on the Los Angeles market. 🔔 Don’t miss out on the latest trends and tips to maximize your property's potential: https://www.youtube.com/c/TaylorAvakian Guest Companies: http://amprconsulting.com http://finchhammer.com http://kingsarch.com 📈 Connect with me: Website: https://www.thegroupcre.com/ Email: taylor@thegroupcre.com X: https://x.com/TAYVAY_ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tayloravakian/ #NoVacancyPodcast #RealEstateDevelopment #BeverlyHillsRealEstate #Entitlements #MultifamilyDevelopment #CREPodcast #CapitalMarkets #CaliforniaRealEstate #RealEstateInvesting #DevelopmentStrategy
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Episode transcript
This 11,024-word transcript is matched to English (Original) automatic captions. Timestamps seek the episode player to the matching passage.
0:00–10:00
Taylor Avakian
from our call. At least 600 units in the pipeline right now.
Alan Nissel
600 is about right.
Avi Stieglitz
Yeah. We find ourselves thinking in the nooks and crannies that most people don't. We were allowed 29 units and increase that almost 40 units. You have to see things just a little bit differently. You have to be able to pivot. Real estate is made possible because of the capital markets. You're convinced of a location. you're just not quite sure what the actual outcome is going to be or when it's going to be, then only good things can happen.
Richie Shamooilian
I have to stay out of this conversation. I'm an active litigation.
Taylor Avakian
Welcome to the podcast. My name is Taylor Vian. I'm here with my esteemed guests today. Um, I'm very excited about this gentlemen. Um, we have Abby Siglitz, we have Alan Nissle, and we have Richie Shimolean. I say that all right.
Richie Shamooilian
it. Listen, an Armenian, coming from an Armenian, the A last name is pronounced literally perfectly. Amazing.
Taylor Avakian
Between the three of you guys, you have at least 12 buildings in Beverly Hills. Can you tell me why Beverly Hills?
Avi Stieglitz
Sure. Uh, so we all have either grown up or lived in Beverly Hills for most of our lives. Um, and so we have an affinity from growing up in Beverly Hills, going to the schools in Beverly Hills. And at this point in time, we're um there's so much going on in Los Angeles. Beverly Hills is an oasis of calm in a sea of craziness. Um and so, you know, we're seeking the calmer waters where things are more contained and controlled and um you know, our long-term outlook for Beverly Hills is um much better than it is for the rest of Los Angeles.
Taylor Avakian
Do you think that's because the city council or the people in charge of Beverly Hills have a I don't want to say an agenda, but you feel more comfortable with the way that they're approaching real estate and business than the city of Los Angeles?
Avi Stieglitz
I'd say I feel more comfortable with their the way they're approaching lifestyle. I think business is a separate kind of point of view and we can get into that with our Builder Remedy projects and all that stuff. So kind of two separate things, but I think at the end of the day, Beverly Hills is a place that that
Richie Shamooilian
I I don't know anybody who would not want to live there given the means and the ability to do so. And the dayto-day life in Beverly Hills, I think given, you know, crime and all of the issues we're dealing with in greater Los Angeles is the place to live. And so if if you're going
Avi Stieglitz
to buy, especially when it comes to residential,
Richie Shamooilian
um you're going to buy in a place you want to live, right? And so that's that's the the simplest way to put it.
Taylor Avakian
And are most of the properties residential apartments or what's the breakdown of the actual building types?
Richie Shamooilian
Right now, it's going to change over time, but I'd say it's probably 30% commercial and 70% um 70% resi. And I think that that
Avi Stieglitz
given the projects we have in the pipeline, I think that's going to flip pretty heavily soon to more
Taylor Avakian
commercial or more resi to more resi. Okay. So all of cuz most of the products you guys have are development sites or future development sites. It's a mix.
Avi Stieglitz
It's a mix. It's a mix. Yeah. Probably half and half at this point. Okay. Yeah. We've got um five projects um in the entitlement phase right now. Okay. Um I can't even count how many units but hundreds of units um
Taylor Avakian
the from from our call at least 600 units in the pipeline right now which is which is probably more than anyone right now in
Alan Nissel
Beverly Hills I would say 600 is about right yeah I don't know it's not more because one Beverly Hills is more than that
Taylor Avakian
okay but in terms of a private private individuals family offices you guys are definitely the most active in terms of development in Beverly Hills
Alan Nissel
under advice of council. I'm going to say one of the most. Okay.
Taylor Avakian
One of the most. Fair enough. Fair enough. You're
Avi Stieglitz
also talking to some some relatively humble guys, so you're not going to get get us boasting too much about this stuff. We we like to stay under the radar,
Taylor Avakian
which is which is fair and I I totally understand. And I think you have to be especially in today's age with feels like you any any situation things can be shaken or laws and regulations can change and you kind of have to be flexible which I think you guys have done a pretty good job of having an A plan, a B plan, a C plan and figuring out what's going to make the most sense in this current day and age. Can can one of you guys talk about a little bit your philosophy around investing and kind of how you approach a deal, how you make sense of a deal? Sure.
Avi Stieglitz
I'll jump in and just, you know, talk a little bit about um the challenges and requirement for being flexible. Um we started on a project in Beverly Hills uh five years ago before COVID. Um and so we're five and a half years out and we still haven't um put shovels in the ground. Um and that's because you've got to be flexible. You know, the first COVID hit and uh that threw everything in flux. Um and then construction costs and interest rates skyrocketed. M um and so all of a sudden, you know, our deal that looked great before co uh no longer pencled and so we had to, you know, go back to the drawing board and fortunately um state law has been favorable for developers in
Avi Stieglitz
California. um at least somewhat offsetting, you know, these counterveiling forces of construction costs, interest rates, um and you know, all the things that are going on in Los Angeles that Richie had mentioned before, uh crime, etc. um you know and so you know we're now able to take a uh development site where we were allowed 29 units um and increase that to you know almost 40 units. Wow. um you know and so that that makes a difference in the underwriting but you know we've got to go back and revise our plans, resubmit and it's a a long road and you know like if we weren't flexible you know and be willing to change you know
Avi Stieglitz
I think that the results that we will see would I think the results that we will see will be a lot better yeah because we've been able to be flexible and you know not rigid and um you know we have a plan and this is what we're going to do and we're going to build the 29 units. Yeah. You're
Taylor Avakian
is that a function of is there existing income on the property that allows you guys to have a little bit longer term horizon because I know for most capital right if if plans get delayed that long like that's a lot of interest they're paying and things like that. So is was there a play there or is that is the capital that you guys have a little bit more patient from that perspective?
Alan Nissel
So, we're very riskaverse and where most people would purchase land with a bridge loan or a land loan or with high interest rate and a short runway. uh we look for convertible assets that we can put stabilized loan on and have possibility uh that you were just describing that allows us to pivot when things happen. So on these particular uh deals, none of them has a bridge loan on them. So they all very
Avi Stieglitz
Try to tell people what the interest rate is on our loans.
Alan Nissel
I would
Taylor Avakian
I be I would love to know.
Alan Nissel
They're all between three and three and a half%.
Taylor Avakian
Jesus. So, let's talk about timing. Man, that's incredible.
Alan Nissel
So, I teach real estate finance and one of the benefits of teaching real estate finance is I'm learning from all of the situations that arise and explaining it and rethinking it. And so real estate in many ways is an iteration of finance. And finance you think is there to lever your real estate deals, but often times it's the opposite. Real estate is made possible because of the capital markets. And if you're looking at real estate deals with flexibility in mind, because you're convinced of a location, you're just not quite sure. I just have a great segue right there. you're just not quite sure what the actual outcome is going to be or when it's going to be, but you're convinced of the location and you can structure the deal with flexibility, then only good things can happen. And the best example I can give you
Alan Nissel
about that is our property in Santa Monica, not Beverly Hills. Okay? Where it was a 50 unit um apartment hotel existing. Existing. Okay. We bought it red tagged.
Taylor Avakian
What does that mean?
Alan Nissel
That there was a fire in the building. Oh. And the city of Santa Monica had to shut it down because the one on Ocean Boulevard. It's on Second Street right behind Ocean. Okay. And my brother and I were walking the building. We were on the roof. It had fallen out of escrow twice already because it was such a rough building. Mhm. My brother had asked a police officer nearby if he would
10:00–20:00
Alan Nissel
recommend his child living in the building and the police officer said not no but hell no. And um that gives you some confidence. Yeah. But we just knew the building was a great location. Second in Arizona, right by the farmers market, views of the ocean. We just knew we would figure it out. Mhm. And um so we put a bunch of partners together, including how I met Richie Shimoleon uh in 2012. And we just thought that something good was going to happen. And so we originally thought we'd put it together for a hotel. That didn't work out. And then we thought we'd do Creative Office. And I'll let Richie take it from there.
Taylor Avakian
Yeah. So what happened next?
Richie Shamooilian
We were actually LPs on that deal. We were not it was not a joint venture and they were working through some things with with a partner and decided to pivot towards creative office and um I
Avi Stieglitz
believe I'm not sure if they'll admit it but I believe that all the way back when they purchased that property they made sure that they had LPS in most disciplines right so that
Richie Shamooilian
they they could execute plans even outside of their wheelhouse. Will you admit it? What is that part of the uh part
Taylor Avakian
of the thesis? It's like VCs, you know, like you want VCs who are not just going to give you money. Just a a parallel. Um you want people who actually have skills or can introduce you to the right people or save your ass. Yeah. Smart money. Exactly.
Richie Shamooilian
And they were smart enough to to
Taylor Avakian
bring on the baby. They
Alan Nissel
were smart. So art there may or may not have been a conversation that was like, "Who are the Shimoleons?" And my bro's like, just in case we need to go creative office, just let them in. Yeah. Smart and humble.
Avi Stieglitz
Am I allowed to cur
Richie Shamooilian
on us? Yeah. Who are the Shimolei? Yeah. All right. So, let's get back to to
Taylor Avakian
Well, okay. Before we do that, I I we're all three in a room right here, and I haven't really explained why all three of us in a room, but would someone please explain to me how all of you guys at this point in time are working together on projects and how that came to be? Yeah.
Richie Shamooilian
So, it's that deal. Avi and Allan have a relationship from childhood. Got it. Right. So,
Avi Stieglitz
they they've been bouncing.
Taylor Avakian
Were friends in in the Wii
Avi Stieglitz
days. Besties from car poolooling in the first grade. Wow. In his mom's Mercedes convertible.
Alan Nissel
Denim backpack and buck teeth.
Avi Stieglitz
True. That
Richie Shamooilian
uh maybe we end the podcast with some late high school, early college stories. I
Taylor Avakian
should get some photos of you guys and throw those up. That'd be funny. For sure.
Richie Shamooilian
Um, so, so they've known each other forever. Again, we ended up LPS on their deal in Santa Monica. Um, completely passive approach to it until one day they decided to take a creative office adaptive reuse um, path.
Alan Nissel
And but just to answer your question, Richie, Avi was my attorney at the time working on that deal. You
Taylor Avakian
were doing you were still current. Are you do you currently do law or is it kind of
Avi Stieglitz
the closest I get to law now? Yeah. Is that um I've guest lectured at one of uh Allen's classes at Pepperdine. Got it.
Taylor Avakian
So, but you at the time you were in the throws of of doing law.
Avi Stieglitz
Okay. Once upon a time worked at Big Law in New York, but uh I've recovered and then now a productive citizen doing good things for the people of Beverly Hills. I
Taylor Avakian
love that. So then basically this deal put us all together. So yeah, please continue. So you were doing that deal put us all together. Exactly. Right. So you were doing creative
Richie Shamooilian
office before we were in the creative office world. Our full focus and kind of mission statement was was bringing back historically significant buildings. Whether or not they were deemed historic or not, very old architecturally significant buildings. we saw something in these buildings that most people didn't and were able to to kind of bring them back to life, which was really something we were still are passionate about. Obviously, a little more difficult nowadays than than pre2020. Yeah. Um and so when they decided to take that direction, they reached out to us and said, "Hey, you know, let's let's see if we can bring things bring this partnership to a to a tighter level and see if we can work together on this."
Taylor Avakian
What are some of the creative offices buildings that you guys have worked on or or own? Um,
Avi Stieglitz
Beverly Hills, 8820 Wilshire, 8800 Wilshire. Two very old vintage buildings. One art deco. Um, 6515 Sunset, 537 South Broadway, 35305 Second Street. I mean, there there's there's a good amount.
Taylor Avakian
Well, ask me a question. What? So, I'm having Jeff Palmer on who did Creative Office in San Francisco. What year were you guys doing this office conversions?
Richie Shamooilian
We started in the creative office world. I think I don't I'm not sure it was really named that at that time. It was it was right around the year 2000, maybe just a little bit earlier. Yeah. Jeez. And uh we just kind of got lucky, stumbled across it. We had an empty building um that really wasn't very attractive. The bones were, but we knew we didn't know a whole lot about that that world. and uh actually leased a portion of it to an architect who designed his own space. We built it out for him, but he designed his own space. And when we finished that product and used it as kind of a showpiece for other spaces in the building, everybody just gravitated towards it. That was before the year 2000. And I mean, knock on wood, I have never had vacancy in that building. Wow. Since Jeez.
Richie Shamooilian
Um there is a space coming up now actually but but point being by the time a tenant leave yeah they want to be in that building have have it leased up and so people really gravitated towards that look and feel and and I'm not saying we invented the the internet what's that
Taylor Avakian
internet the 98 boom you guys been doing real estate
Richie Shamooilian
you're right um but
Avi Stieglitz
but it just worked we know that
Richie Shamooilian
it worked it felt felt good. And so we ran with it. And and I'll tell you, there's nothing like taking a building using, you know, back to Santa Monica as an example. When you turn the lights on for the first time in a 1913 building that has gone through good times and really bad times,
Avi Stieglitz
right?
Richie Shamooilian
It was purchased in really bad times, but it was built as a hotel motel. Again, 1913. Picture for a second what 1913 looked like. Jeez,
Taylor Avakian
there's still oil derks everywhere. things.
Richie Shamooilian
I mean, we have postcards. We literally have postcards that people wrote from that hotel. Like, really amazing pedigree and vintage.
Avi Stieglitz
And so, yeah, it's really great to go and build these these buildings we're working on today, but to take something that was special, fell out of favor, and put it back, right, and and turn on those lights again is a dream. But long story short on that project, um, it ended up being one of my favorite projects we've ever we've ever worked on, partly because of the partnership. Yeah.
Taylor Avakian
So, you did convert it to Creative Office? It was converted
Avi Stieglitz
to Creative Office. It was leased to Wei Work of all people. Um,
Taylor Avakian
this is where things Wait, is this the is this the A16Z story? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I've we've talked about this before. Please tell me Andre and Horowitz. What's What's the story here?
Alan Nissel
They didn't get in yet. We're we're still we're we we're working. We're pitting, well, I'm not. Richie and his brother Allan are pitting Regis against We Work to see who's going to pay the higher rent uh with the best guarantees.
Richie Shamooilian
We Work. We Work. We WWork ended up winning that that I wonder why that deal. Um yeah, you should wonder why. Uh and so we ended up inking a really great deal with them just before things kind of fell apart. But obvious we saw we saw pain coming there. Yeah.
Taylor Avakian
So what year was that?
Avi Stieglitz
You're better with timelines.
Alan Nissel
That was 2018.
Taylor Avakian
Okay. So 2018 you guys renovate this building, convert it to this old motel into convertive office or creative office, excuse me. And you're bidding between Regis and We Work. We work ends up winning out.
Alan Nissel
We sign in 2019. We deliver in 2020.
Taylor Avakian
Sounds about right. After CO had already happened or this is before
Alan Nissel
CO it's happening. We're we're delivering during
Taylor Avakian
CO and they're still like we delivered
Richie Shamooilian
I I want to say just before CO um March, April, right? So I mean like right there um COVID hits immediately get the call from them like we did from many tenants. Ah we need this, we
Avi Stieglitz
need that, we need everything else. and um
Richie Shamooilian
we just we told them we believed in them and we think they should just go ahead and move forward. Do we we feel comfortable with them as a tenant? Whether or not that was true, we'll never know. But
Avi Stieglitz
but uh I think we took a very different approach than most landlords did and were able to
Richie Shamooilian
they they stuck around for about a year without ever having built out
Alan Nissel
the space. Richie, I have a question for you. How many landlords were u negotiating workouts and restructuring leases with Weiwork at the time? All of them. Hundreds, thousands, dozens?
Richie Shamooilian
About 150? I'd say that's a good number. Yeah. Yeah, it's about 150.
Alan Nissel
And how many of them were still in play right before their spack?
Richie Shamooilian
Very few. Two, I think five.
20:00–30:00
Taylor Avakian
Wow. Were you one of them?
Richie Shamooilian
We were. Yeah. We weren't um it and listen, long story short, we negotiated a fantastic termination agreement with them.
Avi Stieglitz
Uh worked out really really well for us. Um in terms
Taylor Avakian
of So for them, yeah, they paid a lot of money to terminate the lease basically.
Richie Shamooilian
What were you saying about council advising that that we not uh say too much? Uh it's it it was a great deal. Yeah, it was a great deal. It was it really worked out phenomenally well, especially for
Avi Stieglitz
our LPs, obviously. Everybody was thrilled.
Richie Shamooilian
Um but the real kind of punchline to the story was that rather than have we was shaky about, you know, forget the money, forget the lease, forget all of that stuff. We talked about passion a minute ago and beauty and architecture and everything else. It made me sick inside that these guys were going to come in build out these tiny offices and you know you you know what we looks like. Yeah. Take that into a 1913 building that we just poured all this love and money into and just dump that kind of cheesy architecture into it. I hated the idea of that. And so while most people were celebrating kind of the termination for monetary reasons, I was really celebrating it because the
Avi Stieglitz
hope was that we were going to do the right thing here.
Taylor Avakian
You're going to get it back and be able to to make
Avi Stieglitz
this building wanted like a Soho house vibe. It
Richie Shamooilian
wanted it wanted vibe. It wanted soul, right? And we work
Avi Stieglitz
really didn't have any soul.
Taylor Avakian
Do you feel like you guys look at buildings? And we're I'm going to come back to it because I know there's more to that story, but when you're looking at buildings, are you looking for that it factor, that character, that what makes this unique or stands out in and a sea of other buildings?
Richie Shamooilian
Can I I'm looking for something that I'd be proud to live in, work in, be around. Right. So, it goes back to your question about Beverly Hills. I'm looking for something, and I think this applies to all of us, that we would want our children living in, right? I we all thankfully have great kids and everything else. That's the type of thing I picture is if it's an office building, how stoked would I be to office out of that space and in that location, right? So, so yeah. Yeah, we absolutely
Avi Stieglitz
look for soul in a building. I mean, would you agree on the residential side?
Alan Nissel
Yeah, I think one of the things uh it's great about having kids for a business standpoint is it's uh always helpful to be able to envision, you know, would Joel or Masel or Haley or orally like would you be comfortable with them living there, working out of there? How safe is it? How how would they feel in that environment? I use that mental uh exercise all the time for locations
Taylor Avakian
and uh to to finish the story. So they we work leaves right now you have a vacant office building that you got to
Avi Stieglitz
we work leaves vacant office building tough
Richie Shamooilian
office market at that time and we ended up um working with a few great brokers and getting a deal done with Andre and Horwitz um A16Z. Yeah,
Alan Nissel
those guys are small VC,
Richie Shamooilian
just a small one. Phenomenal group to work with. Phenomenal tenant, obviously.
Taylor Avakian
Um, maybe we'll get Mark on the show next.
Richie Shamooilian
That would be nice, huh?
Taylor Avakian
I'm I'm going to join for that one. He's been doing Yeah, he's been doing a lot of podcasts. I mean,
Avi Stieglitz
he's he's a real personality. Really? I I can't think of anybody you'd who who better than him to have on a podcast. My god.
Taylor Avakian
for for those people um for those big companies like I don't know if you were negotiated with Newman if he has his people do that but did you ever talk to the guys or they story
Richie Shamooilian
I'm not going to tell any more we work stories yeah we ended up we ended up closing the deal direct with Sandeep Mthrroni who took over for for Adam
Taylor Avakian
got it okay so you were at the top
Richie Shamooilian
you were having these discussions we had to be in order for it to be and I think very quickly they realized that that was kind of the issue um in not being able to negotiate a a fair walk away earlier was that it really needed to be a monoemono real conversation, not going through the layers of of corporate nonsense,
Avi Stieglitz
right? So,
Richie Shamooilian
um and I think that again I think that that's a big place of where we as a group really shine is, you know, I say it all the time. I think if I if I were starting a new company, it would probably be with these guys. It would be David versus Goliath, right? I because I I really see that in many of the things we do, right? It's it's negotiating with the weiwork to get the deal done to undo the deal. Negotiating with all
Avi Stieglitz
these types of personalities. Um you have to see things just a little bit differently.
Richie Shamooilian
You have to be able to pivot. Avi mentioned, you know, okay, COVID hits, interest rates rise,
Avi Stieglitz
all of the the the headwinds are against you. You really have two choices. Either just kind of cower or rethink, right? Look for angles. So, I think that we find ourselves thinking in the nooks and crannies that most people don't.
Richie Shamooilian
And I think that that's been a big part of what makes us successful. We all have our own um uh character traits and strengths and I think we recognize that in each other. Yeah. Right. And so when you're negotiating with a Wei work or one of these massive companies, we see our kind of size and our proximity as a um as a huge benefit.
Taylor Avakian
So what is the because that's negotiation is something that I'm very fascinated with and it's all about leverage points, right? So, how do you guys think about leverage points uh when it comes to having the ability to make someone like a wei work, you know, pay up or get a deal done or negotiate a lease? Like, how do you guys use leverage?
Alan Nissel
The most important thing negotiation is Richie tells me to shut up and I let him do his thing. So, Richie's the negotiator. Absolutely. I
Avi Stieglitz
haven't you seen the movie? I'm not a negotiator.
Richie Shamooilian
I I'll be honest with you. For the most part, what I look for when I'm trying to do a deal is a fair spot where everybody should want to be. Yeah. Right. And so so long as everybody's coming to the table with that mentality, then there's nothing
Avi Stieglitz
really to negotiate. It's just helping each other see. But
Taylor Avakian
most people, I would say, are not in the middle or want to get something done. From that perspective, it's very it's if real estate feels to me like the
Richie Shamooilian
minute you you behave that way in a negotiation with me. Yeah. Then yes, I am a negotiator. Got it. Right. Then then the the the switch flips and it's a completely different type of conversation. But my goal up front is really just to be a good guy. Yeah. Right. And and expect that other people treat me the same.
Alan Nissel
Well, look, at the beginning of that process, we were getting phone calls from different parts of the country, brokers, attorneys, making different representations about what we work was willing to do. and Richie and I was just like, "Okay, that's great. Okay, that's great." And Richie's like, "Shut up." Right. Let me deal with this. Because they were they were all over the place. And Richie was sensing the chaos. And it's like we couldn't make a deal with a part of Wei Work. So, he was much more patient and and and uh and resilient than I would have been, I think, in that process.
Taylor Avakian
That patience is so important. And um I see it too in the the really successful owners and most of them have owned for a very long time. And I I don't know if we talked about this, but each of you guys own your or run your own family office, which is typically patient capital, which is nice. Um but I think patience is such a virtue when it comes to real estate because we do have these cycles and they happen. And if you don't have the patience to, you know, shut up and wait and see what happens or know where your leverage points are, know where your negotiating powers are, sometimes silence is the best negotiating tool that you can use. And I'm sure you guys have been very very uh have used that very much so. And ob you um obviously came together in this
Taylor Avakian
and Allan and you have known each other, but you were in San Diego for a long time and decided to come back and bring your money to Beverly Hills.
Avi Stieglitz
Yeah. So, I grew up in Beverly Hills with Allan. Um, and then I made the mistake of going back east for college and law school. And it took me a while to get back out to the West Coast, but I came back to the West Coast actually to start a um language learning company. So, I was in the uh startup space. Wow. Um, you know, competing with Rosetta Stone. We had a great product. It was um a tool that used uh interesting content. So instead of reading boring materials, you know, Dick went to the grocery store and bought cheese and milk and meat. Um, you know, you'd read about content that you were interested in and then it had great tools that surrounded it. Um, so you could hover over for translation done by professionals, um, listen to audio questions. So it revolved around,
Avi Stieglitz
you know, a five minute a day experience. Um, it's like,
Taylor Avakian
um, what's that what's that app that everyone uses? Dualingo. Duolingo.
Avi Stieglitz
Yeah, Duolingo has been more financially successful, but our product was better. Um, you know, it's it's it's a you know, it's a humbling experience. You go back to uh being humble. Um, you know, you can have a great product, but you don't have great product market fit. And we were a little bit early. This was this goes back 10 uh 12 years ago um when um you know, broadband wasn't as expansive
30:00–40:00
Avi Stieglitz
as it is now. when people weren't as accustomed to using apps um especially outside the US when we were targeting um the greater market of teaching the world English. But anyway, I digress. Um, so I came back to um LA uh seven or eight years ago and um you know had been buying properties in San Diego um and own a bunch of commercial properties out there. Um but then came back here um wanted to focus um in LA and in Beverly Hills where I saw opportunity. And I think that in real estate like one of the most important things is having domain expertise. And I think that also ties back to entrepreneurship and startups, right? Like you really want to whatever you're working on, you want to know that area um better than anyone. And no one knows Beverly Hills better than these
Avi Stieglitz
guys. They've just been in the market for very young, but they've been working in Beverly Hills for a while. Yeah. Um and so, you know, it just makes sense to work with people that you respect and trust. Um and also who have domain expertise and just know the insides and outsides and um you know it's uh great when um you're working on a project and you're in front of the Beverly Hill City Council and it might be a city council member who's not necessarily prodevelopment but describes us as good cholesterol versus bad cholesterol when it comes to developers, you know, and that comes from I want
Alan Nissel
I want the record to reflect that when I go down in 120 years that that should be unlike gravestone.
Taylor Avakian
Good cholesterol, not bad cholesterol.
Alan Nissel
There are two kinds of cholesterol, but he was good cholesterol
Taylor Avakian
cuz you guys Yeah, clearly there's there's uh relationships are very important when it comes to getting deals done. And you guys with this builder's remedy, I'd like to dive in a little bit to that because I think it's been a hot topic. It was it was a little bit hotter when uh you know the real deal was running a bunch of stories. It's cooled down a little bit. But I want to understand and and if you guys can describe the moment when that happened and how you saw opportunity and what actions you took immediately saying okay we need to go and run and do this. Richie has a
Alan Nissel
brother Allan and Allan is just voracious newsreader and consumer and he um identified this bizarre idea that been floated in secondary sources about the builder's remedy and the idea was that there's a housing crisis in California and um there's a housing accountability act and if a city doesn't meet its um it doesn't get its updated housing element of its general plan approved uh by the state, then it could be penalized by the state uh through this builder's remedy. And what the builder's remedy was was some crazy idea that the planning department would lose all of its rights and authority to approve buildings uh that are being developed in that municipality.
Alan Nissel
And we thought Allen was crazy because he is. And uh but we thought, you know what, maybe we should put a Google alert onto the builder's remedy. This is two and a half years ago. Okay. This is really early on. Yeah. Right. And so that's how it started. So Allan got us uh speaking to lawyers, you know, way ahead. Shout out to
Richie Shamooilian
our fourth Amigo who couldn't come today. Alan Shimolean, my brother and
Taylor Avakian
partner. So we'll have to do another one with with all of us that this is the first uh four person podcast I've done. So it's going great so far. I've I've enjoyed it. I'll take it. Nice. Okay. So, Google alerts are set up, right? You guys are looking into this. You're talking to attorneys. Okay. Then, what's the first thing that happens where you say, "Okay, let's go.
Richie Shamooilian
I have to stay out of this conversation. I'm in active litigation, so I'm going to let
Taylor Avakian
Fair enough.
Alan Nissel
Council says I'm gonna say Richie, you can uh cheer on from the sidelines as we continue talking." Thank you. Um, so and anyway, Avi and I are the attorneys. Yeah. So, we can we can speak more. This is a very much of a a legal issue and uh so we we we were aware of this issue very early on, but we thought it was for cowboys. Um, and we didn't see ourselves as cowboys. Um,
Taylor Avakian
the risk averse, the two of you,
Alan Nissel
very risk averse. We're going to tell the city that we're applying for a project and it has no right to say no. City of Beverly Hills. Yeah, it seems pretty cringy. It seems bizarre, just completely anti- uh counterintuitive. Um but then a cowboy entered the fray, Leo Pasilnikov, right, who's just a visionary and um and doesn't have as much sensitivity uh to what other people think uh in the city. Um and he submitted a builder the first builder's remedy application in Beverly Hills um on Lynden just off of Wilshire. So we're monitoring this closely speaking to our attorney Ryan Leerman from Holland Knight. Um shout out shout out shout out Ryan. Uh and not to be confused with Ryan Goolick who works at the city of Beverly
Alan Nissel
Hills. Shout out. And we're following all this and we're still thinking, you know what, we have properties on Wilshire Boulevard. Uh Richard has two. Uh we have one on Wilshire. We have two others in the pipeline uh on Maple and Ochre. We're like still too crazy, but let's just keep an eye on this. And then the second thing happens that we just cannot explain, which is the city of Beverly Hills doesn't update the mixeduse overlay zone in a way that would have we think would have possibly satisfied HCD uh in Sacramento to approve its housing element. They make some changes in good faith, but they were, I think we would have said, foreseeably insufficient. But nobody listens to us because, you know, we're not politicians.
Alan Nissel
Um and uh and their next housing element update is rejected.
Avi Stieglitz
Now, do you want to talk about be heard and our advocacy group that we started and spent a lot of time on to try and help Beverly Hills um get out of its way and do the right thing and show them like where they can make meaningful Oh,
Taylor Avakian
you're not going to believe this.
Avi Stieglitz
please make meaningful changes to their housing element um you know which most likely would have satisfied HCD and would have avoided the predicament that they got themselves into. So
Taylor Avakian
you guys were helping trying to help the city shore up the holes that would have then allowed for builder's remedy to to occur. They det decided not to take your advice or work with you and then you say okay fine then we're going to go and do some builder's remedy stuff. I think
Alan Nissel
that might be a little bit oversimplified. I don't know what happened behind closed doors. I know they read our report which took us dozens of hours
Avi Stieglitz
to hundreds of hours. We went through the mixeduse overlay zone in Beverly Hills which is basically all the main streets in Beverly Hills uh Olympic, Wilshire, Roberts, Liienna. um and you know photographed block by block and had descriptions of how they could you know different blocks should have different rules depending on um you know what what was behind them whether it was single family homes whether it was um you know mixed whether it was uh multif family and really spent a lot of time and suggested that the instead of just having like um a very blanket rule about how much you could build in the mixeduse overlay zone it should tailor to what's near it, you know.
Alan Nissel
And just to give you a sense, you could build 35 to 45 ft at the time, which is insane because you're buying land for like $50 million an acre, but you can only build three four stories on it. So that just nobody was going to build, you know, because you can't make any money that way. So we were saying, hey, on these corners,
Taylor Avakian
how about 75 ft?
Alan Nissel
On those corners, maybe 125 ft. But, you know, they were entry points into the city and they were different. But all the other ones maybe keeping down to 45 to 65 and it really depended on the context and it was a really I think nuanced presentation and I know now they're working with Gansler to try to update the mixeduse overlay zone. So hopefully that uh approach will incorporate some of our efforts. But I think what Oby's trying to say is it wasn't a one-sizefits-all approach. It was really carefully studied and I think it was credible
Taylor Avakian
and they decided to not implement it which then opened the door for you guys to then do what?
Alan Nissel
So after their housing element wasn't approved again, everyone started submitting builder's remedy applications. And at that point, not everyone, but dozens of people started submitting build remedy applications. And at that point, if we didn't submit a builder's remedy application, then it would be possible, and now it seems likely that there would be these tall buildings in Beverly Hills that would be the Aclass buildings. and our idea of a mid-rise at seven stories would have been, you know, the ugly duckling in the crowd. And we didn't uh think that was uh a good move for us. Uh, and so because Beverly Hills had their housing element rejected again and because the pipeline was now being filled with new builders remedy applications,
40:00–50:00
Alan Nissel
the train was leaving the station and if we didn't get on the train, then we wouldn't have the possibility of having an A-class building in the city. So, it was very reluctant, very defensive. It was defensive. It was very reluctantly that we became builder's remedy applicants. uh because uh if other people would have these projects, our properties would be devalued and we also have investors to whom we owe fiduciary duties and we didn't want them to look well they're getting 20 stories you know you know you why are you guys just settling for seven.
Taylor Avakian
So what ended up happening what's where's the current as much as you guys can say like where are we at today?
Avi Stieglitz
So one other thing to think about is again you know this goes back to what we were talking about before about being flexible. So, we had uh a sevenstory building with 56 units and you know interest rates are going up and they're you know at that point not looking like they're coming down. Today we're in a brave new world. I don't know where interest rates are going. Um we'll see how timely this uh podcast is by the time today is day three of after liberation day. So um you know rates have come down April 4th two days we have
Taylor Avakian
yeah five and 10 gosh dude it's a good day for a lot of us but continue
Avi Stieglitz
um in in some sense but there's a lot of chaos and we don't know how and by the time gas hits the air
Alan Nissel
can you guess which one is the liberal
Taylor Avakian
continue please uh
Avi Stieglitz
who who knows where where things are but he's not
Alan Nissel
wearing red
Avi Stieglitz
I don't think any of us are Okay. It was just
Taylor Avakian
we're all went through it. So, okay. So, you're saying that there's there was a lot of unknowns, interest rates were going up and you guys had to make a move.
Avi Stieglitz
Um, yeah. And so, you know, you know, at 50 at seven stories and 56 units, you know, it again was looking challenging to make it pencil out. And so, Builder's Remedy presents itself and we're like, okay, let's proceed with this. Um, and you know what's been really interesting about this whole process, and I think this even goes back to before the builder's remedy era is, you know, just want to step back and talk about Beverly Hills, you know, as a microcosm for the housing shortage in California. Um, you know, in the past 20, 25 years, you know, there've been a couple hundred units of housing built in Beverly Hills. Um, you know, you know, maybe maybe 20 units per year.
Avi Stieglitz
Yeah.
Alan Nissel
Wow. Vast majority of which were for sale.
Avi Stieglitz
Condos, right? Condos. Yeah. Um, you know, uh, apartments even less, right? You know, single digits per year. Jeez. uh you know there just wasn't any because Beverly Hills you know was very happy with the way things were you know lots of uh nimi residents and you know they had it sway over um the politicians in the city and so and and that was fine you know
Alan Nissel
and zero zero population growth in 50 years
Taylor Avakian
seriously. Yeah. Yeah.
Avi Stieglitz
A city is around 40,000 now fewer
Taylor Avakian
slightly because there's no I mean there's nowhere to move in right one moves out one moves in there's no right no density
Avi Stieglitz
period of transformation because of all number one because of state density bonus laws that went into effect uh prior to this builder's remedy era um and now with all these builder remedy projects you know it feels like things are going to change in the next couple years um but you Beverly Hills was fighting uh change and what's so interesting is that um you know if you were a developer in Beverly Hills you had no recourse right like you know there was no by there was really no by right everything had to be approved and you know you could be negotiated down to basically something that wasn't feasible.
Taylor Avakian
Yeah. So you couldn't build you couldn't build any deals. It wouldn't make any sense.
Avi Stieglitz
Yeah. And so that's why there wasn't any development in the city for the last 25 years. And so that changed with state density um bonus laws that went into effect. And you now have what's fascinating to me is an ally on our side that's bigger than the city, the state. Um and that's been uh transformative in terms of um how things are proceeding. And you know, obviously in some ways, you know, the pendulum maybe has swung too far with builder's remedy with the city having no control over um development in the city. Um you know, but that's a result of this pendulum being so far the other way uh previously. So, you know, we're in interesting times.
Taylor Avakian
Do you think that they'll there'll be this the pendulum balancing out again and you think that the the housing that needs to be there will get built and it's not going to be this free-for-all of every, you know, parcel we're going to try to build as many units on as possible because it's going to make the most amount of money.
Alan Nissel
Yeah, I think that now the Beverly Hills City Council gets it. Yeah, I think they're very reasonable. It's a great council. Um, Mayor Shirona Nazarian uh just installed um a lot of hype, a lot of exa uh uh excitement about uh what this city council is going to do. Of course, they're in a pickle because on the one hand they have to be practical about the realities of state law. On the other hand, they were voted in by residents who don't want height and they don't want the city's landscape and skyline to change to becoming one even like West Hollywood or Santa Monica, which are great municipalities, but they're not Beverly Hills. Yeah. Right. So, they're they're in a pickle, but I think they get it. I really do. Um I think they understand what needs to be done. Um and obviously, there's a litigation that we're all
Alan Nissel
following, Leo's litigation. um and that will be another data point to consider um in the process. But even without uh considering that litigation, I think they understand and they have good rapport now it seems with HCD um and uh I'm optimistic, cautiously optimistic that um the lion's share of of litigation is behind us.
Taylor Avakian
Okay, good. I'm glad. Um because yeah, we we want everyone to be able to make Beverly Hills a better place, right? You guys grew up there. You you want it to not just be this free-for-all, but you also understand that there's a need for something like this. So, I think it's a balance to be
Alan Nissel
Hills does need some housing, especially senior housing. Um a lot of a lot of seniors in Beverly Hills that would like to age in place and need more places. Um shout out to John Mirish who's working uh tirelessly to that end. Um, and I think housing will help, but it has to be reasonable, has to be in the right place, and uh, we're excited to be a part of that solution.
Taylor Avakian
So, what are you guys focusing on now? Where's the immediate focus? And, and what does that look like? What are we focusing on now?
Richie Shamooilian
Well, I That's a great Was 30 minutes not enough focus? Do we need more focus? Um it turns out we do. Yeah, we've we've kind of turned our attention just a little bit. Um we're kind of dual track right now with the real estate and now kind of a somewhat related subject which is which is construction defect claims. Yes.
Avi Stieglitz
Um Allan
Richie Shamooilian
went through a few claims on on his own um that I kind of sat in on and watched the process and was really fascinated by. Um fascinated by how broken the system is and how heavily stacked it is against against policy holders, property owners.
Alan Nissel
Um AI is also the irony or I don't know if it's the irony, but Avi was originally my um attorney and now he's my client.
Taylor Avakian
Wow. Okay. Sound
Avi Stieglitz
like hair club for men.
Taylor Avakian
For the layman, can someone please explain to me construction defect uh and why is it such a difficult convoluted situation and why you're trying to solve the issue?
Alan Nissel
Sure. So, when a developer builds a building or has a building built with a general contractor, then usually the developer will get insurance. There are two main kinds of insurance that a developer will get. Uh, of course in construction, builder's risk in order to make sure that if a fire or other catastrophe brings down the structure during construction that there should be coverage um and also like a CGL or a liability policy for any um potential uh litigation that should arise out of negl negligence or something like that. And usually um the developer is not that concerned over what the coverage is and is more concerned about how much that coverage will cost. The developer will then proceed to uh build the or have the building built. And after
Alan Nissel
the building is built uh there might be a defect um that was caused by a general contractor or a subcontractor. uh and that defect will uh result in some actual damage and when that happens you have a construction defect claim. Now, that construction defect claim can be pursued in a variety of ways. Most typically, right, what's gonna what's the developer gonna do is call up his broker. Hey, you got me this insurance, right? Or the
50:00–1:00:00
Alan Nissel
developer call the general contract. Hey, you screwed up. Fix it. Right? Um so, let's say the general contractor fixes. Great. Let's say you call the insurance broker and the insurance broker says, I got this. I got you. We're good. Right. Um usually that doesn't happen. Got it. And when that doesn't happen, uh, who you gonna call? Alan So when that doesn't happen, uh, you're going to usually do one of a few bad things. Get frustrated, uh, call a lawyer, immediately litigate. Um, but, uh, call your, uh, um, insurance broker and cry. Um, yeah. And so when that happens, it helps to have somebody who understands the insurance coverage issue, understands the construction issue.
Alan Nissel
So understands insurance understands constru construction and understands the law. Uh and it's very difficult to do all those things. I mean, when you get into a car accident and you have insurance covering your car accident, how long does it take for insurance to cover that claim? A day, a week? It's very simple. Uh it's much more complex when you're dealing with construction. And I like to make the analogy of let's say A16Z would like to uh um build a home, right? And they call you up, Richie, and they say, "Ricky, we want you to build us a home. You did such a great job for us in second in Arizona. We want you to build us a home." Um so they have all the money in the world to build a home. And they have a design aesthetic. Let's say they say, "I want to use Zolultton Poly
Alan Nissel
because he's the best architect, right? Shout out to Zultan Py." Um, and uh, let's say they have the architect, they say, let's say they want to use a general contractor who builds amazing single family homes, right? Let's say Don Hanover. Shout out to Don Hanover, who builds amazing single family homes. Um, and now, let's say they don't uh, want to spend all the money themselves. They get a loan, right? So, let's say they use Rob Cusich at Chase. Shout out to Rob Cusich, right? and and and so you get the team together. Okay, so you have the team, you have the money, you have the plans, you have the general contractor ready to build the plans, right? Um who's going to run the show? So, usually what um a a homeowner or home builder will do at that point is hire an owner's representative. Okay? And that
Alan Nissel
owner's representative will be the expediter, will be the project manager, will be the person, the ring leader. Got it. We'll
Taylor Avakian
do that whole thing making sure everyone's on track, right?
Alan Nissel
So, if there are change orders, requests for further information, rebalancing of the loan, anything that happens, approvals that um because you know, if you're a highly successful uh private individual, you got better things to do than to read insurance policies and blueprints. Yeah. So, you have somebody to do that for you. So, now take that to construction defect. You have this really complex uh claim that involves fingerpointing. Was it a design issue? Was it an installation issue? Was it a waterproofing issue? Right? It's a who done it? And then you have the legal question of um what does the law say about the coverage? And and then you have the coverage question is what does the policy say? So um you need to have somebody who understands real estate, understands construction, understands law, understands policy. And that's a lot of different people.
Alan Nissel
And so what we try to do is we try to bring the level of sophistication
Avi Stieglitz
doesn't know any of the details. Um, it's been a year and a half since the incident and, you know, we're no further along than we were a year ago. Wow. And I hired a public adjuster. Um, and still didn't make a difference. And so, you know, finally I was like, "All right, we need to bring in the big gun. Need to bring in Finch and Hammer." Um, to, you know, let the insurance company come to its senses. Fire under their ass. Yeah. And so we just started that process and you know I we'll see we'll see how it all f but um it's crazy that this is what one needs to do uh to
Taylor Avakian
be able to actually make these things happen which I'm curious to know from your guys perspective too because a lot has changed in the insurance world. I've seen it over my career too. I used to underwrite deals at 45 cents a square foot for insurance and now if I'm lucky at $1.50 for a nice new building, right? I mean, I just heard and and got a quote for a building we're valuing. Their current insurance policy is $2.30 a square foot. Oh my god. Which is just absurd. That's crazy. Like over 15% of their expenses. So, I'm curious to know you guys' opinion on insurance in California. We just had the wildfires. A bunch of insurance carriers are pulling out. Like, what does that look like?
Alan Nissel
So, insurance in California is changing right now in a major way because uh Californians are pissed. First of all, they're pissed because they're paying very high rates. But you know what's they're pissed about even more? That they're not getting any return on their investment. And so we're seeing right now where the Department of Insurance is allowing certain insurance companies to increase their rates so that there can be more competition in the space so that there can be better product for the policy holders, which is a good thing. Insurance companies should make some money, right? it is a transfer of risk for the purpose of a return on that risk. Um so that is a good thing and that's changing. But in the meantime there's going to be a um a whole hell of a lot of claims because right now everyone from Fair to uh the rest of
Alan Nissel
the insurance companies are highly understaffed for the flood of claims that are coming through. So if you're um in this space right now, you're you're not
Taylor Avakian
bored. What is the timeline on uh getting feedback on a situation? Obviously a year and a half and that was before the fires. What what can someone expect when they need to claim file an insurance claim?
Richie Shamooilian
I think when it Well, all insurance claims are not built equally.
Taylor Avakian
Got it. Right. So So the car versus this stuff. Yeah.
Richie Shamooilian
Yeah. Lose a watch, have it stolen overnight. Yeah. Right. Um A's case a year and a half with with an adjusters's assistance and they're just sending them from department to department which and spend all their waking hours learning about the intricacies. We talked about thinking through those nooks and crannies, right? We talked about negotiating from a good place um and things changing quite a bit when you're not treated in the same way. We believe that policyh holders, specifically in the construction defect space, are being treated very, very poorly. We believe that this is being done on purpose. And I mean, I can't necessarily blame them. Uh but it's why we're here. We're here to combat that headon and um and do a damn good job of it while everybody else just gets to work on on what they're good at. Right.
Taylor Avakian
Well, it helps that you guys are developers so you understand the situation.
Alan Nissel
Oh, we come at this very much from a I'm not just a president. I'm also the member. Yeah. So, we're very much coming at this from a user standpoint. Just like all real estate, how we envision our kids living there. From the insurance standpoint, we're consumers. Um, our business partners are also uh the people who have sold us insurance. Our coverage council people are the people literally writing the policies. our litigators are are the people who um are, you know, the chat GPTs uh top litigate litigators for construction defects.
Taylor Avakian
Um they come up in the search results, you know,
Alan Nissel
that's legit. So, you know, we're really trying to bring the best slingshot to the battle against Goliath because we really think that if you're paying for insurance, it shouldn't just be a cost center, a loss. It should be a place where if the [bleep] does hit the fan, you should be able to recover and it shouldn't take 3 to four years. And it shouldn't be quarters on the dollar. It should be dollars for the dollar.
Taylor Avakian
So then let's go back to focus then. Obviously this is something that you guys are putting a lot of energy and effort into. You simultaneously have real estate development deals going on right now. How do you determine what the best opportunity to work on is? And and and what what for you guys is your philosophy in terms of all three of you guys have individual things going on and all three of you guys have cohesive things going on together. So, how do you determine as if you were telling your kids, right, how do you know what opportunity to go after and where to put your focus?
Richie Shamooilian
Learn how to say no, I think, is is a really important thing that I think we've learned more recently than meaning in the last 5 years than than I probably knew how to do in my career leading up to that. But being able to say no um to projects, to individual tasks, you only have so much time, right? And I mentioned earlier, we all have kids and we all have families and we all have wives who we love dearly. Shout out to wives. Uh Tanya. Yeah.
Taylor Avakian
They they'll be watching this for sure. No question.
Richie Shamooilian
Very very interested in everything I do between the hours of 8th and 6th. For sure. Um so it's learning to say no and it's it's learning that when you do say yes to something, you really give it everything. Yeah. Right. And so, so we don't take on more than we can chew. We are surrounded by great people. We understand each other's strengths with Allen and everybody else at the office. Um, we all have different things to bring to the table and everybody knows what their job is. So, so long as you say no to enough, learn to delegate and and and focus only on the things you're great at, everything works out fine. It helps
Taylor Avakian
when you have great people in your corner, too, who you can trust and are specialists at what they do.
Alan Nissel
Why should marriage be the only great
1:00:00–1:10:00
Alan Nissel
partnership, right? I mean, we're all, thank God, happily married. Shout out to Sarah. Um, but at the end of the day, partnership is the key. Yeah. Talk about flexibility. Avi Vincent Tagle Stiglets was talking earlier about the importance of flexibility. It's not just for the location of the property and its ultimate use. If you have the right team, then the question that you asked Taylor, which is a great one, is how do you know when to pass, when to say no? Well, if you have the right partners, it's not just up to you. So, we have weekly development meetings, 3:00 Thursdays in person. We're all on time. It's a lot of pressure to get all us there on time. And we fight about if one person's a minute late, four minutes late.
Avi Stieglitz
Um, and so, um, but unfortunately, there was a first and a second deed of trust on the property ahead of my lean. Oh, jeez. So there wasn't much left for um for me um at the end of the day. And um so it's been a challenge negotiating with the first and the second um and the buyer to get enough uh juice. Um and so we uh we finally uh got everything in order and um money is funding uh as we speak. I
Taylor Avakian
love to hear it. I love to hear it. One one last thing from each of you guys before we do that. What advice do you have for someone who who wants to be in a position like you guys, wants to be in real estate, wants to be an owner, wants to be a developer, wants to have a business, right? What what one piece of advice would you give them?
Richie Shamooilian
Is it me first? You go ahead. You know, I think I think young people who want to get into the kind of acquisitions world and investment world are really scared of where the money's going to come from, right? And I I got hung up on that very early in my career. And so my advice would be don't worry about that piece. You're going to have to worry about it at some point. But if you have a real deal, the money comes at the end of the day. There's no Has anybody had a hard time raising money for a great deal? The answer is probably not. Unless you're a bad operator. Yeah. Right. So if you're a good operator and you find a good deal, you're going to find the money. Money doesn't come first. The deal does.
Taylor Avakian
I love that, Bobby.
Avi Stieglitz
Um, relationships, uh, you know, so important. Uh, spend time, put in the hours building relationships. Um, that's how you're going to find deals. That's how you're going to work through the issues on deals. Um, and make sure that, um, you know, that you're trustworthy and that the people that you work with are trustworthy. Um, and good things will happen from there.
Taylor Avakian
I love that. Allan,
Alan Nissel
I'm going to combine what Richie and Ovi said. Uh, I'm going to say a lot of people are worried about getting into the right company, getting into the right field or raising the right amount of money. Um, and a lot of people know the importance of relationships and a lot of people should be focused on that. So I'm going to put them together and say I think the most important advice I could give to someone is to find a mentor. And if you find a mentor doing anything in that person's shop so that you can get trained then you get sector expertise right and you have relationships and if you have se sector expertise and you have that mentor relationship and you have um uh the deal then the money will come. It starts with the mentorship. Doesn't matter if the
Alan Nissel
mentor relationship is going to be maybe somewhat t tangential, maybe somewhat less sexy than the field that you originally thought you were going to get into. Maybe it's not CIA, um maybe it's not um you know, Santa Monica and Rodeo, but uh if you have the right mentorship, very good things will follow.
Taylor Avakian
Well, I can guarantee you you guys one thing. You'll be getting a ton of calls from people because uh there's a lot of young people who watch this and I know that they're hungry. They want to do well. They see what people like you guys have been able to build and they want a piece of it. And so um I can guarantee you're going to get some calls from that. So hopefully they'll be calling you. Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Guys, I appreciate it very much. Thanks for being here. Thank you. I appreciate Appreciate it.