From Cold Calls to Millions: Los Angeles Real Estate Success with Morgan McMullin
With Morgan McMullin — Commercial Real Estate Broker & Investor
Listen to the full episode1 hr 5 min
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What this conversation gets into
In this episode of No Vacancy, host Taylor Avakian speaks with Morgan McMullin, a leading LA broker and investor, who shares how he went from relentless cold-calling to buying multi-million dollar…
In this episode of No Vacancy, host Taylor Avakian speaks with Morgan McMullin, a leading LA broker and investor, who shares how he went from relentless cold-calling to buying multi-million dollar deals, himself.
Morgan dives deep into the strategies he uses to identify valuable investment opportunities, the challenges he’s overcome in LA’s competitive market, and why he's looking to grow his personal multifamily portfolio today. If you're looking to break into apartment building ownership, expand your portfolio, or get insider tips on navigating the LA real estate scene, this episode is a must-listen.
Morgan reveals the methods that have not only shaped his career but also helped clients build wealth in one of the most lucrative markets in the country.
00:00
- Morgan’s intro
2:21
- Morgan talking about “Fake it till you make it” mentality on social media and the real estate business, also his LinkedIn bio
4:20- “You feel less embarrassed by the things you don’t know…”
5:50
- Transition from brokerage
7:20- when you started as a Broker, you wanted to get to the principal position or was it a natural progression?
10:00
- Financial help from parents when Morgan thought of starting his career in Real Estate
11:15- “Put your blinders on, don’t get distracted…..”
12:50
- Taylor’s story of when he started his career in Real Estate
15:30
- Morgan talking about the time when he came to California
16:50 “You just don't wanna look back and say I could have tried harder”
21:10- “There’s so many people that just don’t listen and thinking of the next thing they wanna say”
24:25
- Morgan’s turning point as a Broker
29:10
- During the 2008-09 market downturn, do you remember when you stopped questioning things?
33:10
- The first deal Morgan ever bought
38:00
- What made you aim for something bigger when you already had a lot of properties, when did that happen?
42:10
- Advice from one of the first owners Morgan sold an apartment building to
46:50- what are your goals for the next 5-10 years?
54:15- “Tenants are tough…you know our product is housing which is very delicate
59:15
- First deal of Morgan and Bo
1:01:30
- You have to start from ground zero, what do you do with your knowledge?
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it was so [bleep] nerve-racking existing home sales just had their biggest jump in 2 years but then I'm like I it's no buying these guys smarter than me I don't [bleep] know anything my wife and I a joke we bought like maybe five properties before we bought a house that was a massive massive moment in my real estate career I had developed enough of a sense of what I kind of understood about the multif Family Market what the values were and how people were making money it all of a sudden seems like things were
cheap welcome to No Vacancy where I share conversations with LA's top multif family owners investors and Visionaries I'm your host Taylor Vin the founder of the group SI and I specialize in the sale of apartment buildings in Los Angeles on this show we cut straight to what matters Market insights and real world strategies straight from LA's multif family icons to help you navigate one of the most complex real estate markets in the world Southern California [Music] enjoy welcome to the podcast today I have my guest Morgan McMullen I'm going to read his LinkedIn bio as an Executive Vice impressive position with Partners cr/ Keller Williams commercial I have successfully parentheses and occasionally unsuccessfully broker a significant bunch of investment transactions a specialisti is in
the sale of acquisition of multif family and Commercial properties I am particular ly focused on a good day at helping my clients make lots of good investment moves and stuff I value my transactions over my client relationships wait no switch those around which contributes to my ability to successfully represent clients interests and is led to me becoming their investment adviser for life and answer a whole lot of free investment advice calls I've built my business and track Ur on Superior market knowledge specifically where the dairy products in the seral aisle are and a pretty solid work ethic while still holding myself to the highest standards of Integrity parenthesis in above industry standards at least parenthesis as a reluctant owner and manager of investment properties throughout Los Angeles I understand the nuances concerns and issues oh so many issues common place amongst investment
property owners and investors this Hands-On approach keeps me current on all market conditions and also helps to build calluses wow such a good dude such a good LinkedIn bio and I we were talking about it before but like sometimes you just got to take yourself a little less seriously and I think people in um especially on social media man like you got kids and and everyone my age is on social media it's all like fake [bleep] anyways it's all it's all this perception of what you want to be perceived as and in reality if anyone met you they'd be like that doesn't seem like you at all right you know so I think I think that's for me at least reading that I was like dude I have to say that it's so refreshing because it speaks to who you are as
like an individual and you said previously at this point in your career if people don't Vibe with you like that's okay you don't you don't need them to Vibe you don't need everyone to like you or to invest with you and and we'll walk and talk into how you are a premier
owner now which uh well there's a let me let me jump in real quick because there's certainly like a period in you're you know potentially like on the on the back end of this period where you know there's there's a fake it till you make it mentality yeah you know you're 20 years old fresh out of college you you feel young you are young you're inexperienced and you have to fake it right like in order to get anybody to sell a multi-million dollar property you know you got to dress the part you got to you got to kind of talk the talk and then you know the longer you're in the business the more you become comfortable with your style of business in the way that you do business and then that you know that facade we'll call it like kind of just starts to shed yeah that's
when you know the tattoos come out at client meetings you know what I mean like for for years it's you know uh you're not embarrassed by the car you drive whatever you know whatever the thing is that before was kind of an embarrassment it's something that you now Embrace is like part of who you are and so like when I wrote that I'm like you know [bleep] it like this is like much more genuinely who I am yeah than you know what was written before yeah that like I remember like I had like you know friends I was like bouncing it off of them like helping me write that how's the sound you know not not the new version the original version of Pro and you're like no this is 100% authentically me and like you know I I don't put it in my investment decks but that's my next
but yeah right that's my you'll get there you'll get there one day no it's it's funny you mentioned um becoming more yourself I think it's like you stack skills upon top of each other as Brokers where you have the confidence to know like there's not a there's very few situations where I'm not 100% or I'm not 95% sure of what I need to do but if there is like I've dealt with a bunch of stuff I didn't know what to do and I figured it out anyways and so you kind of proof stack your skills to where it's like look man you know you see you see my track record you see what I do I perform like if if you're with
that great if not right feel you feel much less embarrassed by what you don't know you know there's there's a a long period of learning where you're embarrassed by what you don't know and you try to you know like I tend to fill those gaps with like talking or bullshitting or stuff like that which is not a great trait in in most businesses but especially in real estate and so I did that a lot um until you exactly what you're saying like you you do you absolutely you stack the skills to a point where you're like okay I'm comfortable if something comes across like you know my desk or whatever that I'm unfamiliar with like I feel absolutely fine being like I have no idea what this is yeah you know like
I'm I'm going to figure this out but I don't know what this is this is new to me and there's always new stuff you know always learning butar there's like that critical period where you're really like learning the kind of the the nuts and bolts of the business where it's like you expected to know it you know so like if you don't know what a cap rate is like you know saying like I don't no but let me get back to you is not an acceptable answer no there's certain things where it's like did read one page of like the how to be a commercial real estate for dummy's book and just know that like know that and then so certainly there are limits to like what yeah there are some things you absolutely need to know as like
a business professional yeah no 100% which I want to talk to you because you obviously um a buddy friend and have made a successful transition primarily from brokerage which you did for I
sounds about right so 2005 was when I started in brokerage and I grind I was absolutely grinding for yeah for about 12 years and then I started to I invested in properties earlier than that we'll we'll get to that but um it was certainly much more of like a side thing which I think a lot of like it's very uncommon for Brokers to be selling properties and being successful as an agent and not investing in something but it's still like most are doing it especially the ones that are still grinding they're doing it as just like a hey I Now understand this so like let me throw some money here let me throw some money here there and so I was doing I was doing that for a long time like roll fees in well and even more than that buying buildings but just like not
as not as focused got it on it got it and so and then you know it was about uh you know the last like five six seven years whatever yeah my math is not adding I'm I I'm losing track of time at my at my it goes back quickly man it goes by quickly so like the last call it the last five years I've really been grinding on a new on a on a new Venture but you know before that the previous couple of years I was kind of focused more on trying to like you know
make that transition did you have it in your mind when you started brokerage that eventually you wanted to get to the principal position or was it kind of a natural progression where you saw what other owners were doing and the wealth that they were creating for themselves and their family and you're like I can do that like I I know everything about all these properties and or at least I think I know a ton about I know what a good deal is I know what a bad deal is I know where the good pockets are like was that your when you started brokerage did you want to go down the principal route or was it a natural transition yeah
uh good question I want 100% got into brokerage to it was almost like to learn real estate and I didn't know exactly where what so in my mind I wanted to like you know again we're going back to like 23y old yeah um I was like I want to I want to develop shopping malls right which is kind of a funny thing but I was like okay well that is you know I'm I'll I'll rewind a little bit more I'm I'm not local to La um I grew up in Montana in a at a town of 800 people called Andis Montana if anybody wants to Google that um it it was 800 people uh when I was growing up 40 years ago and it's still 800 people so um but it's it's a big secret don't go there the locals ter yeah they'll really bad
yeah they'll string you up um and so I ended up in LA because I followed a girl here out of college we're still together we've got two kids now so it worked out that and I started working in I literally started my commercial br job
uh a month after moving to La wow but my goal it was you know it was like if I want to develop shopping malls yeah I know I was like how do I get there and then it was like okay well this seems like a really good step this is like getting your PhD in real estate by you know you're among a bunch of real estate agents who are all kind of conglomerating information putting that information together to try to do deals you're also engaging with principles that are the the people that are actually doing the deals and the ones and so you're getting all that information so I was like okay I'm going to go into that and let's just call it you know I was like kind of thinking about grad school
while I was in college like maybe because I I didn't know what I wanted to do you know went to UC Santa Cruz not a lot of guidance bananas bus real strong I did we there was a lot of Agriculture involved but you know like for sure yeah but I didn't really to see a future in ACC um especially at that time yeah e yeah um and so you know I was I looked at it at it as if you know I went to my parents who still live in monana I was fortunate enough I was like look I'm going to need some financial help to because I want to be I want to go into real estate and I looked at it as okay well if I go to grad school I have
to pay tuition I have to pay for food and housing all the other things and I come out of it with the degree right so I was like okay real estate seems like it would be in some capacity it would be a good fit for me so I was like so I viewed brokerage almost as like my form of grad school I was like look if I [bleep] suck and just like absolutely flame out in this I will find another Avenue that these these I'll call it I gave myself two years that these two years aren't wased yeah right so like you're M personal NBA right and I think that that mindset at at that age um it helped me a ton because I was less focused you know obviously like Financial Independence was a is was was and has always been a major goal of
mine but I didn't feel you know I just saw it as a as a as a process of learning about real estate right and so then you get in and you find things that really work for you and you like and whatever but like it it allowed me to and you know I worked at a company called investment real estate Associates still around um was founded by a guy Roy Cory and he used to always say you know he he would always say put your blinders on like don't get distracted cuz as you know when you're starting in brokerage you're you know there's it it's it's hard hard it is it's easy but it's hard anybody can sit down in cold call anybody can literally any unless maybe your voice doesn't work or saying
most people yeah um but to do it successfully and to to make money and to be able to and forget about money again let let's just go to get somebody to meet with you is very very very difficult so having that mindset of like and rafie saying like put your blinders on which you know it's like the horses have those blinders to make sure that they just run forward you know like birds or whatever are like distracting them so it's kind of like tunnel vision you know and that just allowed me when I hit every time there would be something horrible you know I did like 40 proposals in my first year something like that and it was like and I got I think I listed like at the end of the year like one or two BRS you know it's just like brutal but I just saw
it as a means to an end you know which was in some respect to be in the real estate industry obvious L like I dreamt of of being a principal but I it wasn't like a realistic it didn't feel super achievable at that time yeah got it
got it and so your your first year in you feel the pain that is commercial real estate brokers in your first year um I'm sure there were maybe some other guys who started at the same time who had some success maybe a little earlier than you and again you got to put those blinders on and just do what you're supposed to do because it is it I mean personally for myself we had a Sim story in terms of um I wanted to develop apartment buildings when I was like what do I want for a job and one of my family friends who kind of uh had done apartment building development he's like hey look I love it glad fantastic right you can 100% do that but first go understand the business and learn and make connections and he had done
the brokerage to principal development route and so I was like well he's got a sick house in Tahoe and a really nice Escalade and a you know $150,000 boat like I think I'm going to do what he does right um and so it's similar in terms of wanting to understand what real estate even was like I didn't know what a cap rate was or a grm or any of that stuff I I took real estate in college but it was just like Excel spreadsheets and we didn't even do multif family um and it it it's it's when you look back on it and I look look really fondly cuz I didn't close a deal for 12 months either 12 months first listing was like 6 months or something but it took another 6 months e escro which as someone who had not closed a deal
was brutal yeah I looked so fondly on those two years even though I was working my face off and I mean I remember my alarm Morgan I said it at 3:45 in the morning because I remember our CEO at the time said you got to give up working hour like you're just not going to be able to do it you gotta you know be in here at 6 leave at 8 like when are you going to work out and I remember I was just ego whatever it was I'm like dude [bleep] that there's okay watch me watch me right and U I think that it proved to be incredibly I don't looking back I don't even know how I did that but um I did it and I think you have to have that mentality when you start in this business and when you go on the
Journey of being an independent contractor and not having any sort of uh I mean fortunately for both of us I think we had some support from our parents but like in in reality that can only last so long and you have to perform and and you have to make something happen for yourself eat what you kill and I think that's why people with personalities like um you know you and I and other friends that we're we know just you you kind of have to just do it you got to learn it grind it
like everyone goes through it yeah well um a couple of like a couple of things to add on all add to your 3: a.m. I was never a 3: a.m. guy but I do I do like vividly remember I was like you know we my wife my wife and I girlfriend at the time we were like renting we were in a three-bedroom with like two random people that live there which is just wild to imagine now um and uh I would buy cases of like Campbell soup from from Costco and take them to work and like my it's a joke with my wife and I still to the day she's like soups for work cuz like I would just heat up soup and that was my lunch so I could just sit and coold call through lunch and
it was also a cost thing you know it was like it was like a two-fold thing so and I would literally I would do instant oatmeal in the morning at the office I would literally shower and leave and it would you know I'd leave around like maybe 6:30 7 something like that and then it was just like oatmeal at the office soup for dinner at the office you know go home at like 7 or or whatever you know and it's just it's it is it's wild it but it um having that like tunnel vision having that laser focus on what my objective was just really helped me you know and again like it just I never got pulled left or right it was just always like okay well again like if this doesn't work out like let me learn as much as
I possibly can and also like let me let me make sure that I I don't come out on the other end I feel like I've heard you say this too on maybe it's it's probably on social media yeah um is you know you just don't want to look back on it and say like I could have I could have tried harder you know it's like if you've ever played Sports and it's the fourth quarter and there's two minutes left and you're [bleep] gased and then I I would tell myself like hey man H you're gonna be asleep in three hours go as hard like everything don't just don't relax just don't relax because then you won't look back and say like well I didn't give it my all it's the exact same mindset um and and I do think that if you have a long-term plan um you know it
certainly helps you get through those the short term of it you know and that's why there's really two types of Agents I've seen in business and obviously it's more nuanced than that but like I've I'll categorize people as like people that are kind of learning the business and selling real estate and then there's just salesman you know and you know the the first group can still be great salesmen you know but it's like like I certainly have the ability to put my salesman on and be like okay let me just sell like do I believe this you know let mece myself that it's like I can believe it or right but through the process you do you you have a you have a belief and you have a an understanding and you have an opinion about what it is that you're selling right now it doesn't mean
that you're going to like you know [bleep] on your own deal or whatever you know but like there's a lot of and I I should say when I say there's two types of Agents these are like agents that make money like I know agents to this day who have been doing it for 20 years that literally don't own a single piece of property yeah and do fine but they just sell they just are great sales but they don't care what the product is you know like it could be anything could just be selling you could be selling T-shirts or gold or whatever you know it's just like hey man like I will sell which I think um you know there is a salesmanship that certainly helps in the business you know but like I think that having you know if you're in the group that has an
you differently and that really stands out to them especially over time as you transact with them it's not like you know I I I still have people you know like I when an agent calls me about something that's just absolute dog [bleep] and they like kind of know me and what I bought it's like hey hey man like don't like even I'll use you're a perfect example you will ping me because I always want to see something but you'll be like I don't think this is for you and that opening is because you're not making my mind for me just to let you know if there's some reason that is outside of why you what you think I would buy tot I still want to see it because there might be that reason right which is why you should send it but by opening with that you have
acknowledged that you have heard me that you listen to me and that you kind of know a little bit about what what I would like to buy and you you don't want to totally put me in a box yeah that's why you're showing the deal yeah but you know I think that that really resonates with with
clients 100% relationships and that was one thing I think I was in that first boat of just salesmen in the beginning like I was just um ripping calls like that was whenever I didn't know what to do RIP calls that was just my default mode and for me it was try to get a proposal try to get a BB try to get a meeting right that was just my sole goal and I think when I started to see other successful Brokers and how they transacted and really I think it was from a lot of failure of like not winning business being like wait I've been calling this person for you know three month or three years and I thought we had really good rapport maybe I didn't go and meet them at this or maybe I wasn't and then you
start looking into like oh actually the person he hired kids go to the same school and like they hang out on the weekends and yada y y and I started putting two and two together and I'm like if I'm going to be doing this for a long time and I'm going to be good at doing this for a long time I have to have a robust skill set that is not just being able to pick up the phone and call people right you have to be able to build relationships find common ground and also be able to understand what someone actually wants and listen and not just be that person who sends everything all the time just because you're like anyone who you know I'm marketing my my deal I'm it's like no critically think about yeah
the relationships you bu well you know you you said something that like is so true because so many people they don't listen they don't listen and they're always in their head about the next thing they're going to say and like I've been in meetings whether it's an investor pitch or a broker pitch or whatever where you'll hear somebody just abs like the the investor will say something that is so important so critical and the other person just steamrolls through what they said because they already had like what they wanted to say yeah and you're like who hold on you know like hold on like L just just listen and it it sounds kind of cliche because it's like seems so obvious but it's hard to do you know like you get you get really worked up you get you're amped for the
investor pitch or the or the sorry I'm like yeah yeah yeah plating brokerage and the principal side but um both sides yeah but both both sides is really it really is similar um you also touched on something that I wanted to talk about now I can't well one of the things that like you know is is a big part of you know any business really is just like the commitment to you know like the full commitment to and that's another thing that like when you're when you're in a job where it's where it's what you kill it's you know it's it's hard it there there's like doubts you have doubts because you're not making money right and so as long as you can keep committing and recommitting and recommitting again it's like you know my sports analogy is if you've ever dropped into a into a halfpipe like you you
know there's vert where you fall you free fall it's everything your body has taught you not to ever do is turn your body sideways and just fall you know but guess what if you try to keep your body up right the board kicks out and you eat [bleep] and so you have to commit you know and then there's certainly overc commitment you land on your face but like you have to commit to it and I think that like you know in in real estate whatever you're doing on the principal or broker side you have to you have to commit you have to recommit you have to constantly recommit to it you know like hey man like this is it this is what it is you know it does not go away
either right like the doubts and personally for me like there's still days where I have the worst possible conversations with owners everyone is just like maybe even I'm calling on a new area or something like that and people are just like get the F off don't ever call me again like you scumbag you sleazy salesman I'm never I'm like damn man like that still hurts me sometimes right and I've built up enough of a shield to get through most of those days but sometimes you still feel it and I think again when you've committed to something and and put it down either in your mind or you made up your mind on paper or you've you've had other people who have held you accountable it's like okay this is what hard is supposed to feel like this is what I signed up for right this is
my commitment right and I'm going to give it everything until I either am wiped out for whatever reason I can't or I'm just going to keep on going till I make it right which is so so important um do you remember your first like Turning Point as a
broker um yeah I mean very like you're you're talking about like try being where you knew you could make it um or like was there a deal where like honestly it was I I had immediate success in my ability to get meetings so that always felt good which was always enough of like a of like a a backpack yeah I'm good at this I have some skill yeah and and that that like you know and I've always been like a self-confident person so I never really doubted myself and it was just really like you realize that it's a numbers game and sometimes even if you're good and you have all the skills it's still just not going to work it's just not going to happen like I I distinctly remember the closest
deal that I was like the L's like yes I want to sell it you're my guy it was like a 20 something unit ability and then I'm like it's happening you know and then last minute she and a partner owned two buildings they split and she like called her partner just like as like a and she was a broker and she just like swooped in and took the listing from me and then I like brought a buyer on it because it was like a well priced deal and I got [bleep] on that too and it was crushing yeah it was crushing but then you know it was my ability to to just bounce back from those things like I don't I don't like I'm I still remember it it I still remember but like yeah I mean can change did right I mean I've I've I've
closed 250 deals and I still remember that specific moment like very very well because those things leave an impact but it didn't affect what I did what the next step was it was like okay let's go let like let let's I gave another seller it comes back to you know and I've got a really good buddy now who talks about exposure a lot because he was like a Stanford grad and he's like his exposure was like you know he always talks about like well what what would have happened if you had like not grown up in NIS Montana and like what if you had the exposure that that a lot of other people do have um even you see Santa Cruz not [bleep] on us to Cruz is a great School Alabama yeah learn learn something whatever but like you know the exposure is so critical and the things
that you're exposed to and so you know if you want to if you want to be a principal in real estate brokerage is literally you know you're trying to drink drink from the fire fire hose yeah you're drinking from the from the fire it's just like you are getting all of the information cuz you get to you're talking to people all day and if you listen you will [bleep] learn a [bleep] ton of stuff you know and that's like that's that was ultimately why it was it was always kind of you know the ups and downs of like trying to get deals and whatever but yeah so to answer your question that you asked a long time ago um yeah there I was I was pretty aware that it was going to work after about 12 months 12 months closed my first deal at like month 10
11 and then and then it kind of just went yeah exactly that's right and then it was like a barrage until 2008 so I had basically a three-year run to to two and a half year run which was really really disheartening and talking about like recommitting it was um you know 200 and it was actually 2008 was still a very very good year because I had enough in the pipeline from 2007 I think that the financial markets crashed like in October yeah yeah yeah November or something like that and I had enough in the pipeline I closed a bunch of deals I I was I was rocking and 2009 was actually the year that I was doing the soup thing because it was like re it was like f you have to like find yourself again and I closed I want to say three Deals that year after you
me and like you're feeling and it and I felt it too in 2022 like you know you're skilled you know you can get deals done you know a lot of like you you're confident right and then this you just get hit by brick wall and like humbled man [bleep] humbled and you're and it's like you're questioning a bunch of things like am I doing what changed am I doing this wrong like what and it's it's not some things are out of your control that's right right right but to go from it
there it was just it it was tough it was It was kind of perfectly timed for me because I was still young enough and naive enough that like nothing nothing had like drastically changed my life you weren't living above your means still in a one-bedroom apartment with your wife or girlfriend yeah um we hadn't you know I was still driving my my beat up 250,000 mile Highlander you know with the c bumper uh so I didn't change my lifestyle so it was it it was it was hard in just from a from like you know a psychological standpoint like you're saying of you know I thought like I'm like [bleep] I figured this out dude this is sick and then it's like did you you know like how about this go figure
it out again so it happened I think at a at a perfect time in my life and my career where I was able to readjust um and kind of figure out because it was you know I realized quickly that uh and you hear older Brokers talk about this all the time that the skill set was less important during the when you know when the sun shines or whatever totally you know it's like so it was like re redefine what your what your skills are um and so it was just like buckled down it I think it really helped me that I had no backup plan because I had a bunch of buddies one of them turn is is my partner in in my newest like in my main um investment Venture but you know he had backup plans he went to a really good college he
was getting like recruited was like you know and he got pulled into kind of like asset management at the time because but I didn't have a backup plan my plan was to learn enough to go and do something like well now there's no like nobody's hiring in state so like I don't know what to do let me just stay you know and so you know I'd say 90% of the agents that I was working with at that time got out of the business you know and there were guys like B my partner who just went into a different aspect so I guess that that what definitely cuz he was always driven by the from the from the I want to be a principal so was like asset manag perfect like that's something new that I'm about um but a lot of them
just they went and got jobs you know and and not that there's anything wrong with that but it's just you know some of it some of them turned out to be much more successful than me some of them much less you know it just like depends on what they did but I just was laser focused on getting through it in 2010 and then you see progress which is really critical you know like just need a little bit that's right like you need to get you need to get f a little bit and then you kind of see it again you start to get excited and by 2011 which 2011 was ter still terrible in terms of like values and stuff but it was the time where there was like Banks unloading stuff all of a sudden we had transactions again so that's all we
need doesn't need to be a good Market or bad Market as long as there's transactions that are happening and 2009 there was like and I I don't have any of these stats I probably had him no like there yeah there was like nothing going on is that a stat is that a percentage 100% yeah um and but one thing I did you know from again from a and I think this maybe a good transition point you know from uh because of the timing of all of that yeah I had developed enough of a sense of what I believed you know what I kind of understood about the multif Family Market and how it kind of worked more or less and what the values were and how people were making money and i' analyzed pnls and that it all of a sudden seemed like things were cheap and not just
like in a you know sometimes we kind of can trick ourselves a little bit it's like you know you're telling a client like look it used to be 12 times or whatever it used to 15 times gross now it's 13 they're like I still can't make money like but like it got so cheap and this will lead me to the first deal that I ever bought MH was a listing of mine and it was a six unit by Melrose and Western okay okay 20's building client of mine uh I'd done couple of other deals with him and he wanted to sell it and I was asking $550,000 sorry 600 $600,000 for it for six units yeah different again different typ different different um and you know I toured it with a dozen of the most you know known investers that were
still like not completely terrified of of what was happening I'd gone through all the unit with a couple of them and I had like the highest offer I had was like 475 something like that you know which again numbers are crazy totally and we look back on it um but I remember just like I I I was just like you know talking to my wife and I'm like this property is kind of cool like I've been in it it's nice I think it's a good deal you know like I think that it's like a good I think it would be a good property to buy and then it was like okay um how would that work and how would we How would put together funds for that and so we kind of started working on that
and you know I called my client and I said you know I'll buy it for you like I want to be like full disclosure I've marketed it totally understand if this is like an awkward situation because you know there's certainly like some yeah real estate guidelines that I probably violated as long as they agree I think it's fine exactly and disclosed it all but and I was just like and but more than anything like it was I was genuinely trying so hard to sell this thing and so I was like you shocked that no one else how I guess and so it was it was both um it was both exciting and it was so [bleep] nerve-wracking because I kept telling so anyway we came to an agreement $550,000 okay yeah and it was higher than anybody it was it was I think we maybe had somebody at 500 something
but it was like whatever like it's still like seems like it's fine and it was less than 100 a foot oh my God so and it was like a seven and a quarter cap and you you know and rates were I around six and a half something like that so it like everything made sense you know I was just like why is nobody but then I'm like why is nobody buying it these guys are smarter than me I don't [bleep] know anything I own the dick and these guys won't buy it like so that that moment was um it that was that was a a massive massive massive moment in my real estate career was saying like Okay even though nobody wants to buy it and nobody's buying anything and by the way and this was 200000 this was in 2009 so I had
had made some money in 2008 so the funds were there so and you know it was funny because my my wife and I a joke about like I think we bought like or yeah we bought like maybe five properties before we bought a house she she was like can we can we get it can we do the house he like later later later trust me you'll you'll thank me later I promise um we still own the property as you probably know um and yeah but it was like a it it was like a pivotal moment because it was like Hey you do know something and it turned out to be really good you know like it worked out yeah um and it was like a a big growth period just to like know that I have you know the balls
to be able to do it and you know and the follow through to be able to kind of execute something like that and then it's like once once you've like kind of cracked that you know I think within the next eight months we bought another six-unit building by LA City College and then it was like and then I you know then it was like it the floodgates kind of opened up like and these were all like small properties I was doing them all kind of like Perry pasu with like a couple of you know friends or family or whoever I could whoever would throw some money at I didn't have any idea of how to structure these things from like a a truly like invest I'm just like to put money in and I manage for free and that's what we do like can we just
buy it you know these were people that were close enough to me that they um and again that that was a big moment is you know having somebody trust you enough that you're not going to lose their money you know and um yeah like that you know that builds that confidence and then yeah and then it was like a duplex for 150 Grand in ktown and you know then then we started kind of leveling up a little bit and got some bigger ones eight 12 units 13 units whatever um and that just continued you know like
yeah so and then as as eventually right this becomes more of your focus on the principal side when did that happen and what was it that you think like was it just this you got this you you look up one day and you're like oh [bleep] I got you know got a lot of property like I'm pretty good I'm getting income from this like now let's try to go bigger do
you remember when yeah yeah no uh very distinctly I I brought both up earlier so Bo Drake and I were in the pit coold calling together so and he was ATA he was ATA he was you know I think he started a couple months after me okay and you know we became we became friends you know when you're in the trenches together like it's it's I'm still like I'm still like very very good friends with 10 people out of 15 in the pit or whatever it is you know and even the ones that like I barely ever talk to it's like we have this bond that will never be broken we can go like six seven years reconnect and it's like you know
remember that one time I know yeah yeah um and so Bo and I we both in brokerage we both like our trajectories were very very similar we're kind of working similar areas in multif family and um right as he and I were graduating from the senior Junior role we were we started working on stuff together we partnered up on on some listings together we worked really well together so and then again Financial collapse blah blah blah we he he went into Asset Management he kind of bounced around worked for a bank and um and worked for I'm him on to all okay you listeners listen to Bose um and in 2011 okay so this is you know as I'm kind of like doing these little deals and Bo and I are still friends and we're talking he's kind of he's like hey you know like we realized early on
again because we're paying attention and we're listening to people we you know when I started in brokerage I just thought everybody that I was selling buildings to was like buying it with their own money and they were just super rich right and then at some point you know hopefully early on you realize that a lot of them are are syndicating deals raising money and they're not buying it by themselves even the ones there of course there's plenty of family offices and super high Networth individuals that buy [bleep] but like a vast majority of our repeat clients are investors that are raising money and so I realized that so Bo and I I you know I remember we sat down we like put together a business plan were like hey we should raise money and buy deals you know this in
2011 which by the way like i' probably I think I'd be retired I was going to say you should have freaking well it was you know it's hard to even reflect and and like in the moment man well the the thing that we realized you know we had a we had a company name which is not the company not the same one yeah not the same one which I'm i g okay okay off camera we had an investment deck we sat down with the CPA with an attorney we were you know we were kind of we didn't get to oh yeah was just like kind of like and then you know we were kind of like spitballing like where we would get money and a lot of a lot of the people were like just like investors that
we were like still selling deals to yeah and then I'm like sitting there you know I'm like why the [bleep] would these guys give us their money like they we own nothing they own a bunch how are they and we don't have any money I literally like don't have the money to be able to invest enough to in a you know 20 30 unit building that's going to entice somebody to be like yeah man like so and none of my you know this is again I was probably I could do the math again but I'm not great at doing that uh 25 26 years old something like that my immediate like circle of people they didn't have money either like nobody had money like so I was just like so Bo and I like okay well cool even if we find a really good deal what are we gonna
do like we can't buy it you know so I was like okay let's table this and we tabled it for 10 years and we came back to it in 20 to in 2020 and that was when we like took that launch so wow it wasn't until then that you know and I just kind of stuck with the brokerage thing and my my goal was to earn enough that and to just continue to do what I'm doing um somebody told me one of the first guys I ever sold a building to at apartment of building too he gave he he gave some advice to me he said you know at when whenever you have enough money uh whatever it is 25 50 Grand you know just every year put your money into a deal just every year so that became like
my goal like once I once I like cracked the seal in 2009 yeah I invested in the deal every year from 2009 until today wow uh embarrassingly last year was was the first year I didn't make another investment in pseudo real estate thing so I'll I'll I'm going to count that yeah for sure you invested yeah um but it was yeah it that was that was my goal and so it was always just you know put a little bit into you know I I I developed really good relationships with some clients who I invested with um or just like some of these small properties it was just like get into a uh I have a a brother that lives in Salt Lake City that I was talking to you about earlier and he sells houses out there and
so when things were cheap there we started buying some apartments there he was kind of like hey is this good I'm like seems really good you know like we still own a lot of stuff um and so it was and then you know again the the networks that we develop are so critical yeah and that's another thing that you know just like you you're not you're not from Los Angeles and so in order to you know to you have to create that network from like you know the absolute ground level and you know getting getting that network of of people that kind of like you know know trust you and so I started investing with a broker that I knew that was you know more senior than me and was doing really well and he started
buying like some 7-Elevens and we started doing some of those and but I was just you know whatever I can put into them you know but again it's always the it's the people you know like I I've never done like a you know like a crowd yeah yeah yeah crowding yeah crowdfunding yeah I've like never done anything that's like it's always just with somebody and and you know it was very very helpful for me to understand what it's like as um as the lp you know because I was definitely like here I'm doing like some Perry pasu small deals that I am managing I still manage some of them by myself day I mean the tenants have never moved out so like you know like they call my maintenance guy they don't call me like whatever it's it works and it's not very many yeah um and so you know
it was you realized or I realized that it was like you know I was just giving them money and trusting them I I read the documents a little bit you know like I think but it was you're B it was just you're just B on the horse you're just like this this guy feels like he knows what he's doing this lady feels like she knows what she's doing like I'm just here it is like you know and you kind of look at the deal of course and like like whatever but overall you you know I just realized that that was going to be how other people would invest some people are going to be more critical than others and what they're going to analyze and whatnot but um ultimately it's just I mean like so much of it brokerage investing it's about trust the
moment you violate that trust like you your your currency it just drops just dramatically you know like to almost zero yeah which is why you have to protect that so much and and it I
didn't realize it too when I um started right cuz you New Town new City new industry you don't really know [bleep] but it's a small small community man and stuff gets around and people talk and like if you're known as that one broker or investor or whatever and it's it's not good like people know right and it stays with you for a very very long time if not forever right in that market right and so I think it that's so it's so smart and and that you aware enough of that uh which you're a good person too right so it's not like you're ever trying to I'm not yeah I'm not
like fighting against the demons that are like steal that guy's money it's it's it is right it's easy when you don't have those desires I guess people have those maybe sometimes we know a couple
people are like I don't know if you should have should have done that you know um no but that that's that's huge and so that was when things kind of continued to to grow and I'm curious now um with where your partnership is with Bo and where you're at in your career like what are your goals for the next five 10 years do
you do you have that planned out yeah um you know they change they change a lot daily if I'm going to be like you know when I was talking about being laser focused like I'm much less laser focused these days yeah uh bo and I are constantly like reworking what the go what the objective is um you know one of the things that I've learned that I I really enjoy and doveet tales perfectly in kind of what we're talking about is that I love the people aspect of real estate and so you know a lot of a lot of um a lot of investors are you know nervous or just have a rule against like taking money from friends or family and to me it's like I get so much more from Investments when people that I like
or uh that I'm super close with um are investing in my deals like it just makes it it it like defines why I'm doing it so um you know Bo and I we we we have under our belt about $50 million worth of real estate so it's yeah not like a it's not like a massive amount it's not like tiny um and so you know we're constantly talking about like well what you know what's next you know we've been approached by some funds that want to kind of like you know be our guys but I once you know I struggle with being removed from the people and just having like hey here's my here's my required return and it's like is is that what I'm is that what I'm doing it for you know so and I certainly think that that is a limiting factor in my overall career
and success uh but I don't know that I care and so that's you know that's what we were able because the market kind of took a turn we you know we we accumulated our real estate portfolio over just a you know over a couple of years um
and then we've you know the market turned massively and and we've taken a little break and so it kind of gave us a chance to kind of like you know think about what we're going to do and how we're going to do it and so um a lot of it Bo and I are very like-minded in the way that we get excited about deals we're still like kind of deal junkies and we are very very positive uh and um we both are really effective at getting things done when we want to get it done and so a lot of that just has to do with like what we find and how where we are at that time and then if we both get excited about something we're going to make it happen big small whatever you know like so um that that's going to
be a big driving force you know because as you know interest rates went up it kind of cut the meat out of a lot of these deals and you know the path to profitability for us you know as much as I enjoy like I said making my friends and family money I I would also like to make like a little yeah um and so that has become more difficult and so it's like trying to figure out like what the next phase of of real estate is you know like over the next year or so which is I think
is one very self-aware of you because um a lot of people that I noticed and are in the business there's this like ever this unquenched thirst for just bigger more more more more and you can see that in some people and their portfolios right but like are they happy do they get to spend time with their family do they like when you're at a place where if you had to stay at this place or this level for the rest of your life right would you be satisfied and happy with that inside like psychologically and if you can say yes to that that I think like yeah who gives a [bleep] what other people oh you didn't grow your portfolio to 250 500 million billion dollars you could have done that you're like no I like to the I like to be with my kids I like to work the way
I work I like to go to the trips I like to go to like right everything fits those boxes and that self-awareness in itself is I think a lot of people don't get there till it's too late sure and
it's cool that you've well and frankly it's one of the reasons like B definitely has um I don't want to say bigger aspirations like he has a because you know again we're very aligned in like how we view just and everything but he he's he's a he's like a kick in the in the pants cuz sometimes I'm like I'm I'm such a Content person you know I'm like hey man like everything is like it's like well hold on hold on you've got a little bit more tank you know like you're you know you don't want to really sit around and drink beers all day you know what I mean so um it is you know it's one of the reasons that our partnership works is because he uh he definitely like keeps me kind of like going again not that I'm like trying to
retire but yeah we're um it's a good mix yeah it's it's a good mix and that's you know Partnerships are are are critical man and that was something that you know I realized like early on the six unit that I bought on Melrose or near Melrose yeah um I took one maintenance call like literally you know like week after we closed I got a call you know my tubs backed up I'm like you know I I grew up on job sites my dad built houses in Montana so you know I work instruction during the Summers and you know I was crawling in the rafters when I was like six running electrical for him I was like small enough to so you know like I know I'm like I'm I'm a handy guy I can I can I don't need to call somebody you know at the time again like if
I'm paying a a plumber $100 to go out there it's like just it's I'm like it's a $100 out of my pocket you know I'm like I've got it so I take my snake down there and I like I snake this family's bathtub and I pull out this like greasy like raccoon tail is what it looked like and it comes out and the smell and everything so thank you plumbers for the work to and they do not get enough appreciation love because um it was it like it's funny because my that the snake that I I think I may have bought for because I'm like I'm going to do this yeah never used it never been used um and I that was like literally last like call that I that I took so having you know Bo is such an operational
guy he owns a management company which you're going to talk to him about I think a lot um but his perspective on you know tenants and the things the the pitfalls that come with that are just are are just so unbelievably valuable yeah to investors and to me you know to just have somebody that's like truly in those trenches because you know here I am like I'm managing I where I had a portfolio of 50 units you know and it's like it's just so small compared to now what we've gone to and so and he's has thousands ofits under his belt so it's like having that knowledge and having that understanding um also I'm like way too flexible with tenants you know and he's much more callous because you deal with them more he he's seen the
balance it works right yeah and it's tough yeah because tenants are tough man like you you know ultimately the product you know our product is housing and when your product as a business is places that people sleep eating [bleep] you know like it's a it's a delicate thing that you're offering and the consumer is the renter yeah and so you know that in each building is a different business also every building has its own set of uh it they're just very nuanced in their own way where where it is how old it is how large the apartments are how many people live in the units who the people are all of these things and so you know something that I've definitely learned over time is that you know the operations of building you can be
the the smart you can be the best guy at finding the best deals if you can't operate the buildings efficiently you won't do well you know and so that's where both and I knew that we could underwrite it we knew that we know the we know all the markets we know what the market rents are we know this we know that we know how to Source deals we've got the relationships with Brokers that we've worked on for 20 years we've got and then but if you if you so you buy a deal then well okay now what you know it's not just okay get another deal it's not the broker before you're done that that's right it's just the first part of the business plan now certainly we believe that we're immediately adding you know just on the buy you're adding like 10 15% to your to your
investors because they wouldn't they don't have any of those things that I just talked about so already we're 15% ahead of the game if they were going to go throw money into a deal of own right so we've got a major Head Start but then you have to execute the business plan you have to add the value that you've been saying that you're going to add you know and so then it's like trying to figure out like oh can we rent extra parking and can we do an anyu and all you know all all of the little things and it is nice like you know having having somebody to bounce those things off of constantly and I did it in brokerage you know and you and I had this conversation because um even brokerage when you're
meeting with a client depending on the client but like a lot of people don't really want to deal with one-off dudes you know like or or women like they want a team they want and and teams are it's super helpful to have another person another brain that has just a even if it's a slightly different perspective on things to like bounce those things off you know and yeah it's 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing like that's like a very con phrase in our business I feel like um and but there's a lot of yeah I find a lot of value in having partners that you can work with but it's you know it's obviously like difficult and hard to find partners and again this is part of like networking and everything
like trying to find the right people you seem to be really good at that cuz from the broker side you have your partners literally partners and then uh from the principal side too you found your partner so one of the things I think when I started out and I'm I'm going to go back to when I called you and I think I wanted to meet one because I know You' been in the business and we're a broker and then we're starting to go on the principal side so I'm like okay this makes this justifies as getting together right I can ask him about brokerage and he also wants to get a deal for me so like maybe he'll say Yes um but uh I hated Brokers if they were not on cuz I I used to see them as like okay you it's mono imano like you're going against
me I'm going to win exactly direct competitors and it wasn't until I think later in my career and starting meeting some of these guys where it's like they're exactly like me man like we're the same person doing the same like these are my homies like we're boys like let's just you know let's hang out let's talk even if we're not in the same company or or we're competing on deals it's like there's so me this again this business is so small and relationships Drive everything where you never know when that broker or that buddy or that friend whatever can help you make something happen or make an introduction here or give you a piece of info that helps you and your client whatever it is like you don't know and so when I started to uh really not look
at everyone as enemies but like no like these are my these guys are me right like we're homies I mean shoot man it's so much more fun too when it's like someone says oh you know we're working with so
and so like we he sold up I'm like dude great guy good broker like you're in good hands you know let me know I'll go to him if we have a buyer we'll reach out like no problem that to me is just so much of a better way to run the business because again you only have one reputation right and like if you're known as the guy and who who knows maybe that guy becomes a principal or I become a principal and they want to invest
with me like it's just the the first deal that we bought about and I I want to say we had 10 broker investors wow and that had that trend has has remained yeah they are a big they're they're not like a huge part of it but it's like you can go to these are yeah these are exactly what you're saying guess who knows how to evaluate the real estate really quickly agents you know these guys are like these guys are Savvy guys that have some money on the side and I would do the same thing with them you know like if somebody brings me a deal and it's like hey I'm putting this deal together hell again I don't want to put my money into something that I don't have to do all the work on and I'm like I know it's a good deal and I know
it's a good deal yeah that's right so you're you're 100% right it is um and I I distinctly remember I think it's gotten a little easier to feel connected to the brokerage Community because of social media I mean when I started like we social media was not as prominent it was barely it was barely barely 201 10 something like that 2005 buddy that's [bleep] no no no but when social media yeah yeah it was like 20101 right I mean Facebook was around but it wasn't a bit I can't even remember it was like a friend it was like a that's right contact book it wasn't like a social [bleep] um and so you know there's agents that I meet we meet one time yeah you know we click follow follow and then all of a sudden I'm like watching him
on vacation with his family and it's like I feel like I know them and so I do think that it's become a bit easier to feel connected to people that you don't necessar see all the time yeah um but I always saw it as like a valuable resource you know like again like there's no reason that and of course it's like you know you can be homies with somebody and play basketball with them you know and like try to dominate them try to show them that you're the better than them um but as soon as that game's over the game's over you know like you there then of course there's plenty of people that you're going to not like yeah and that maybe won't like you sure not
you but like yeah yeah the people you know and so I don't think I have maybe one or two enemies but that was a younger me I I I rope a man myself no no it's it's it's very true and it is getting so hot in here I think the AC's turned off so let's we'll wrap it up here let me ask you one last question you had to start from Ground Zero you just have your knowledge no I'm out I'm out no no sorry go go yeah like you have to start from Ground Zero you can go principal broker right but just like you're 22 years old you moved to your same situation you have your knowledge though what do you do same thing same same path it
would turn out differently you know in some in some way shape or form um but yeah the same path man there's no better way to crack into it's and it's funny because I have clients now whose kids have grown up and went to college that I knew when they were like little kids because you're old and uh and they call me and they're like hey you know my son has graduated from college like thinking about like you know I just had a client that was like I'm thinking about buying him a little building that's going to and and I'm like so he'll learn like a thing yeah no put him in a pit and make him cool call I don't care he he has the luxury of not caring about whether he makes money or not yes but he will learn a thousand things MH and it's all
about exposure so of course ownership is a form of of exposure but you you're not getting all of the people's perspectives the all the investors or all the the principles out there and what their thoughts are and all the Brokers and everything it is just a wealth of knowledge and so yeah man I don't know that you know if if if I had it all Stripped Away you know I think I'd just kind of start over and just run it back you know I love it it' be tough it tough but I have to get soups I know than
C maybe maybe tonight you're like hey oh your wife's out of town I was going to say maybe you have some soup later who knows Mo thank you I appreciate [Music] it thank you for listening to this episode if you enjoyed the podcast it would mean the world to me if you could rate US five stars on YouTube Spotify and apple podcast it really helps us get our name out there and helps us get fantastic people like our guests to share their insights and knowledge with you again my name is Taylor ven I specialize in the sale of apartment buildings in Los Angeles and Southern California and I look forward to sharing more of these conversations with you see you in the next